model 19

[Gerald DiMauro]

I would just like to throw this out there for anyone who cares to answer. I recently bought a pair of beautiful walnut 19's. I love them. Now after having them a couple of weeks I started playing my old records which I used to play on my father's system. He still has a Heathkit system from 1970 with beautiful Altecs. I believe they contain the 416-8A or B and 811's using Heathkit's own crossover. My father's system was the standard for me. I compared everything else that I ever heard to them and nothing could touch them. Including my 19's! Is this possible? His are similar in size to the Valencia which is a lot smaller than the 19. I think the 19 is a little boomy. Does anyone else think so? Also I don't think these 19's have quite the clarity as my father's. If I turn the HF pot all the way up it seems harsh. The main difference in listening rooms is this: his room is wall to wall carpeted with floor to ceiling drapes and maybe 18'X 20' while mine is maybe 12'X 15' with hard wood floors and nothing to soak up sound except the sofa and loveseat. Do you think I should try a different crossover? Maybe this new supercrossover that Todd white likes? I can't tell my wife about this. She'd kill me after driving almost 400 miles to buy these 19's. Your insight would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Gerald

[AllanCT]

I think you will find that room acoustics will greatly affect a speakers sound quality.

I would do the A-B test in one room before you go changing crossovers or components.

I would think you would need to duplicate as much of your fathers listening room characteristics in order to achieve the sound you feel is your ideal reference.

Just the direction I would head in from reading about your observations.

[Gerald DiMauro]

Thanks, Allan

[gearjammer]

It,s your room,sounds like it looks nice but not for hi-fi sound

[Gerald DiMauro]

Thanks for your response. While I do believe the room's acoustics have a lot to do with boomyness I don't think that it applies to the clarity issue. I mean I'm playing the same passages that are burned into my brain from years of listening and I'm sure I'm missing something. I thought it had to do with the crossover in the 19. In doing research by asking many different gurus I've come to see that not everyone is 100% pleased with the 1200hz crossover that Altec made for these. I know I'm splitting hairs but I trust my ears. I think there is something more than the room's acoustics playing a part here. Thanks for your response, Gearjammer.

[Russellc]

What is the crossover point of your fathers set? if it is 500 or 800 Hz, maybe it is the crossover. I,m assumeing that it is not practical to try your speakers in his room, perhaps you could remove your crossovers and either try them in his speakers, or try his in your speakers. I find this troublesome, as I have convinced myself I also need a set of nineteens and have been collecting parts. I planned to use one of the boxes produced by iconic and use an electronic crossover. I did not realize they used a crossover point so high! Perhaps others can comment, i've always heard such positive things about the nineteen.

Russellc

[Gerald DiMauro]

Russell
From what I've read I'm sure the cabinet Steve from Iconic will build you will be as good as or better than an original 19 cabinet and they are also developing this new supercrossover. I don't think I could swap cross overs with my father. I'm going to keep talking to people such as yourself and collect as much info and try to make an educated decision. A friend of mine will set me up with an electronic crossover with time delay for testing purposes to see if it improves the sound. You know, when I hear certain passages the vocals or even the horns sound a tiny bit like they're being fed through a wah wah pedal. Do you know what I mean? It's like the sound you get when you leave the pedal slightly partially down a hair. It sounds like it's a hair out of phase instead of right there in your face clean like my father's altecs. Other than this they sound great. I'm sure I'll get this thing figured out sooner or later. Thank you so much for your response, Russell.
Sincerely
Gerald

[Bryon]

Hi Gerald

I empathize with your problem, literally. I just picked up a pair of Model 19s (oak) last week and am experiencing some of the same things. I haven't had a chance to check out what components they have in them yet.

First, the speakers generally sound magnificent ( a major improvement from my Klipsch Heresys) but on some recordings, I find the same kind of clarity problem.

I also have the same room problems. I am in the midst of a major renovation and the 19s are sitting at the end of a bare room, on newly installed hardwood floors, no drapes not even a couch or chair to soak up the bouncing sound waves. I realize that I probably sacrificed sound quality by tearing out the wall to wall, but it makes my wife happy so ... actually happy enough that she didn't complain when I brought the 19s in, other than to mention that they take up most of the living room. Since listening to them, she thinks they are the best investment I've made to my system and I've been tinkering quite a bit over the last year.

The reverb effect I am hearing seems only to be on some recordings, mainly early rock cds, while jazz and classical cds sound great. I can't wait to hook up my turntable.

Other considerations for my setup are speaker wires, connections and my amps. Right now the 19s are connected with 18 gauge zip cord via the spring terminal (which has got to be suspect) at the bottom of the speakers. I know some people think wire is wire, but I noticed a marked difference when I changed from Monster cable to stranded silver (litz) on my Heresys. You might want to consider what amps, interconnects and speaker wire your Dad uses as the fault might not lie in the speakers themselves. I get the sense that these big boys are very good at transmitting the signal they get and that they could be very revealing of system weaknesses.

I am waiting to hear about the new supercrossover and modifications including binding posts and dampening the horns are on my list (which is growing daily).

Hope you get your problem sorted out. Please post the results as I know they will help me confront similar concerns

Good luck

Bryon

[JimRoy]

Gerald, Here's my experience and thoughts on the 19s.

Ive got a pair of 511b/808-8a/416-8a* speakers in a home made bass reflex cabinet (built aroud 1970, originally with a home made electronic crossover (500 Hz) but changed to a Marchand about '94 and augmented with an 18" Velodyne subwoofer in '97.) The setup plays absolutely cleanly at any volume but suffers from a lack of high frequency response. (Anyone selling some 802-8gs??)

I was lucky enough to recieve a pair of 19s in the last year which I'll eventually use for surround channels. With the crossover controlls set in the center of the optimum range I'd say the 19s have better tonal balance (and perhaps imagining) then my original setup but have slight distortion on "complicated music".

I've been taking some measurements on the 19 crossover to see how much equalization Altec built in so I could try and get an equilizable electronic crossover with delay to time align the horn/woofer. (Eventually I'd like to replace the Marchand and convert the 19s to electronic crossover.) My initial measurements show about 8 db rise in crossover signal to the horn from 2kHz to 17kHz with the controls set in the center of the optimum range. This coupled with the 19s' tangerine phase plug drivers (which your Dad's probably don't have) might explain some of the differences you've heard.

regards, Jim Roy

*416-8as are temporarily replaced with a pair of JBL 2226Hs

[Gerald DiMauro]

Bryon,
First of all congrats on your new oak 19's! I hope they bring you many years of happy listening. And you definitely did the right thing making your wife happy by removing the wall to wall carpet. Whatever it takes, right? I'm going to check the speaker cables and connectors like you suggested. It is something I really never paid much attention to. I'll be sure and post anything I find or have questions about along the way . I'll also post any interesting findings while I experiment with any crossovers. Thanks so much for your reponse.

Good Luck
Gerald